Why the Roof Flaps Didn't Work As [Not] Intended

"bwp240" (bwp240) 05/02/2016 at 08:30 • Filed to: NASCAR, Tech Stuff

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Photo Credit: USA Today

Yesterday’s race at Talladega was one of the more interesting races we have seen in years. The racing was just another episode in what has honestly been a great NASCAR season as far as racing is concerned.

However, with Talladega comes the threat of big wrecks. Most of the wrecks we saw had at least one heavy hit. It was the closest thing I have ever seen to a iRacing race in real life: multiple pileups, many bruised cars, and those bruised cars racing in the Top 10.

Chris Buescher and Matt Kenseth tried to defy gravity in the race. Both were involved in accidents that at the very least, shook the oil up in the car a bit. Both accidents were met with many of the same reactions on Twitter and other social media, mainly.

Why did the roof flaps not work?

I thought the roof flaps were designed to prevent the cars from flying through the air?

GG roof flaps...

Looks like NASCAR roof flaps worked well. Brian France is ruining the sport. He should resign and be sent to Guantanamo Bay with nothing but a magazine and a duck.

-Various Twitter Users

*some anecdotes may be made up

The reason the roof flaps didn’t work is because in both incidents, there were anomalies that prevented them from working, both physical and mechanical.

Common between the two wrecks were that the cars did not turn backwards before lifting. Roof flaps are designed to be most efficient when the car is going backwards (especially with a counter-clockwise rotation). Neither case had the cars facing backwards when they rolled (or flew).

Photo Credit: NASCAR Youtube. All others are screen grabs.

Lets start with the easy one. Chris Buescher’s incident is a common “sweet spot” when it comes to flipping a NASCAR. Chris was driving along happily at 200 mph when he got shunted in the side by Michael Annett. That shunt was placed directly in the RR axle. The combination of the forward force of the direction of travel + the side force of the shunt (which was offset by it being on the RR) = Rollover.

This has been a common “sweet spot” with NASCAR racecars no matter what generation of car is being used. Three incidents that come to mind are Clint Bowyer at the 2007 Daytona 500 (Gen4), Mark Martin at Talladega in 2009 (CoT) (which incidentally was the last race in which 2 roll overs were observed in one race), and Reagan Smith in the 2015 Nationwide race at Daytona (Nationwide COT). I could find more examples, but I will let you guys have fun with that. No amount of roof flap would have prevented this roll over. It was just the right spot, at the right time. Had Annett hit him a bit further back, Chris would probably have had a head-on with the wall.

2007 Clint Bowyer

2009 Mark Martin

2015 Reagan Smith

Matt Kenseth’s incident was a little more complicated. His blowover was quite an anomaly. If you watch the wreck in slow motion, you will see that the issues start in these places

1. Danica drills him in the RF tire demolishing the RF corner.

2. Car’s suspension buckles and transitions from the banking to apron which exposes the underside.

All of this happened within the first 3 seconds of the video. Follow with me now. Watch the first angle at 0.25x.

0:00 - Drilled in RF by Danica. Kills tow and RF suspension

Credit: NASCAR on YouTu

0:01 - Car’s right side digs in absorbing the sharp left turn.

~0:01.5 - Car shifts to the left side suspension absorbing the blow from Danica. At this point, the car transitions the banking and the front of the car is in the air from the wheel to wheel contact.

~0:01.8 - Air rushes under the front of the car with the void left by the front wheels. The car continues to rotate around the point of contact. At this point the car is going airborne.

0:02 - Car continues rotating in the air (at 150+ mph) and turns around.

~0:02.5 - Air catches under the (already lifted) back end and the blowover commences.

It was those sequence of events that sent Matt over. The combination of the wheel to wheel hit and the rotation of Matt’s car because of it. Could the roof flaps have helped? Most likely not. As you can see in the last picture, the roof flaps have deployed, but are not really “in the wind” and providing enough downward pressure. Matt’s car was already well past the tipping point. There really isn’t much that could have been done.

To NASCAR’s credit, they do all they can to try to keep the drivers and fans safe. However, they cannot predict all incidents. Anomalies will happen where a sequence of variables will occur just perfectly to replicate the results they were trying to prevent. Are these incidents worth reviewing to try to mitigate? Possibly. In my opinion, they are not worth stewing over, making radical changes, and experimenting with unproven methods. If we see similar events when we come back in October or at Daytona in July, then perhaps we need to do something

These crashes are going to happen. There is not much more we can do to the cars outside of reducing their mechanical performance. From both flips, and the other wrecks we saw yesterday, the cars are built like tanks. Talladega has a very wide surface with plenty of runoff room (on the backstretch). This gives room for cars to slide, spin, and flip well before they crunch a wall. For those concerned over fan safety, perhaps they need to make like Daytona and reconfigure the wall and stands.

jimz > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 08:33

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Don’t do what Donny Don’t does?

good analysis :) the roof flaps have indeed been beneficial but they’re no magic wand.

vondon302 > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 08:35

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Good write up. That was a fun race to watch.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 08:41

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Good oppo. Good analysis. Out of curiosity, if they changed the angle needed for the flaps to deploy, could it help drag the back into line? I’m particularly talking about the ones on the trunk. make it so that at about a 30 degree slip angle, they pop which should slow the spin and push the top of the car opposite to the direction it wants to go if the tires dig in on landing.

jvirgs drives a Subaru > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 08:44

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Added note to the 34 flip.... The roof flaps are not really designed to open at that angle either. Since the cars run counter clockwise, the rear normally will spin to the right (except in instances of overcorrection) thus is the reason why they are angled as such.

That Kenseth flip was similar to Dillon’s at Daytona in July with the front end contact kicking the front end off the ground thus allowing all the air to rush under the car creating lift to the point where no amount of flaps or fins will stop that car from blowing over

bwp240 > jvirgs drives a Subaru 05/02/2016 at 13:29

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In my first draft of the article, I did state that Kenseth’s flip was similar to Austin Dillon’s at Daytona. I took it out because after I reviewed the footage, Dillon’s crash had more of a direct wheel to wheel contact sort of like what was seen in open wheel racing. I thought Matt’s was a bit more complicated than that. I was honestly surprised it went over because in comparison, Matt didn’t have that much air time when the front came off the ground.

But they do share a lot of similarities.

bwp240 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/02/2016 at 13:34

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I honestly do not know...

Back when they had the wings on the COT, the side panels on those wings generated a lot of side force and really kept the cars in line. Spins were pretty easy to steer out of.

For Chris Buescher’s crash, nothing could be done about that. That was mostly a weight transfer.

For Kenseth, possibly. By the time the flaps deployed, the air flow over them was already partially blocked by the car. The under side had a much larger exposed area than the flaps did (generating more lift). I was surprised that it continued to roll once the hood came up. I would have thought that was a decent air dam.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 14:22

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Yeah, I was thinking specifically about Kenseth with regards to trunk flaps. If the car’s going straight they’d be held down, but more than a 30 degree angle and one of the sides will pop. I also can’t help but wonder what those rear bumpers acting like sails once air gets under the car is doing.

bwp240 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/02/2016 at 15:12

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Hmm. Trunk flaps could be a potential solution. The question would be if there is enough surface area for them to be practice. In theory, you could design the trunk in such a way to act like a giant flap, but you run into issues with being able to access the trunk and other things.

The rear bumper lifting the car is a fundamental flaw with racecar design. They are meant to provide downforce with the car going forward. Turn the car backwards and it works in reverse. Look at last year’s Indy 500 practice problems.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 15:16

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It’s not even a reversal thing. As soon as the back’s off the ground, air comes in at 200 mph and hits the rear bodywork from the wrong side creating tone of lift.

UKPDXWRX > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 15:46

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Actually from where I’m sitting that looks like a case of the right rear tire being 2psi under inflated.

NegativeEd > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 15:54

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After the Jules Bianchi crash in F1 I wondered if there would be a way for an onboard computer to detect, or a driver to trigger, some form of 1 use only air brake flap system. Almost like an airbag system detects and fires the bags, either the driver or the computer would initiate the system where larger panels or wings on the car pop out to greatly increase air resistance and slow the car down. If the system saves you from a crash, you would be considered to have "virtually crashed" and out of the race. But the car and driver would be free of injury.

DirtTrackRacer13 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/02/2016 at 15:56

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Yep, that was the same issue with the original car-of-tomorrow wing. As soon as a car turned backwards the wing would produce lift and pick the car up. They changed back to traditional spoilers pretty quick.

Oscar T Grouch > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:01

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It almost looks like (on the second one) that as the car lifted off the ground when the flap came up it pulled the top of the car back. So you have air moving under the car and on the top you have a spoiler catching more air. Basically leaning the car back more. I dont think it caused the roll but i think the flap actually helped pull the top of the car back and increased the angle of attack.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:06

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There is only one option. Retro-rockets. When they detect the car starting to flip, they fire upwards, slamming the car back down on the track. Think of how awesome that would be.

Cronus > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:08

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One other problem from Kenseth’s crash, there was a giant hole in the RF fender that was probably allowing more air into the engine bay then the cowl flaps could evacuate. I think that was more responsible then the transition from the banking for lifting the car off the ground to begin with.

Vodanation > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:17

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What about a chute??

UnknownPerson2 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/02/2016 at 16:17

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I don’t understand why there is not underbody pannel to smooth the airflow.

To help suck the car back down to the ground after lifting, perhapse add a drop down pannel, vortex generators tied to the suspension. So during suspension drop the pannels drop to increase undercarriage drag.

Vodanation > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:18

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Or mabye they could use Trunk Monkeys to lift the trunk durring a spin.

northernwreck > NegativeEd 05/02/2016 at 16:19

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A driver probably would not react fast enough to engage it properly and very few drivers would willingly taken themselves out of a race. If they were worried about crashing they wouldnt be driving cars 200 mph. A computer could deploy it in time but any driver would complain that “he could have saved it”. I would argue back of the field as the penalty or a pit pass through rather ejection that way having the system is favorable both from a safety and racing perspective.

8695Beaters > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:19

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I disagree with the Buescher analysis. His roof flaps didn’t deploy at all and there’s a simple reason behind this: the roof flaps don’t work when the car spins to the right. The flaps are all biased for driver’s side flip. Here are two screen caps from that accident:

This is Jimmie Johnson’s initial spin that set off the accident. Notice how he’s spinning to the left (driver’s side). The flaps are deployed because NASCAR angles the roof flaps to deploy in this direction. On an oval, this is the direction most cars spin, so it make sense to orient the roof flaps this way.

However here, we see Buescher tumbling already. Notice how his roof flaps never even deploy, because the air is moving over the passneger side of the roof. Also note how JJ has now done a 180 and his roof flaps have closed again. Luckily he has already scrubbed of speed so his car isn’t taking off (about 0.5 seconds later he is moving backwards enough for the flaps to deploy again). In this direction, the air is pressing the flaps CLOSED, not open. The Buescher/Bowyer/Marting wrecks are EASILY preventable. Just put roof flaps facing the right to help keep the car down.

The Kenseth flip would definitely not have been stopped by roof flaps. NASCAR will have to look at other ways of preventing flips.

8695Beaters > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:23

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I disagree with what’s being said about Buescher. NASCAR’s roof flaps are designed for driver’s side spins. JJ spun to the driver’s side and his flaps deployed correctly. Buescher/Bowyer/Martin all spun to the passenger side and their roof flaps never deployed. NASCAR should add a roof flap that deploys in the direction of a passenger side spin. This would reduce the passenger side flips greatly. See the screenshots below. Notice how when JJ’s car does a 180 between shots his roof flaps have closed. But he’s scrubbed enough speed to not flip.

Obviously a passenger side roof flap won’t stop ALL flips (see Kenseth), but it will lower them. NASCAR just needs to make it happen.

bwp240 > 8695Beaters 05/02/2016 at 16:39

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You bring up a valid point. All of those clips are passenger side hits, and there are many more to go with it. I just examined a few other crashes and most all of the similar circumstances were passenger side hits. I do not know off the top of my head of any on the driver’s side.

I still think that the cars are rolling in the Buescher scenarios just because of blunt force rather than aero. They are getting hit by cars traveling nearly perpendicular to their direction of travel in the right rear axle, and the flaps simply do not have enough time to deploy before the car turns over. I would imagine the same thing would be seen on the LR axle if we had a reasonable sample size. Could reorienting the roof flaps help. Possibly... I will see if I can find any driver side hits.

Dr. Strangegun > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:56

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How about they ask for a redesign of the trunk and/or hood hinges and pins that allows them to break or otherwise separate when enough force is applied from beneath to lift the vehicle off the track. 1000 pounds combined ought to do it... pull/push “up” on the trunk sheetmetal with 1000 pounds of force and it comes loose. Doesn’t have to come all the way loose, just needs to spill it’s air and then be loose enough that it doesn’t jam up and cause it’s own issues. Have the lids retained by (existing, IIRC) cables/straps and fasten the breakaway mechanisms with a quick-release (like cotter pins through a rod) so a pit stop to put a new trunk on wouldn’t be a horrible time sink.

andersonwal > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 16:57

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This brings up another point, would you rather have a car that spins to the right stay on it wheels or flip. If it stays on its wheels and doesnt come around, we run into a Dale Earnhardt Sr. scenario wheel the car suddenly goes nose first into the outside wall at a fairly high speed. where if the car would flip, theyll most likely hit at a fairly shallow angle but you also run the rick of going much higher in the air and into the catch fence

RazorGP > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 17:28

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Judging by the title it seems someone is a fan of the Evangelion movies.

tacos 4 life > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 17:31

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I feel like they almost need a B-pillar flap that deploys in these sideways slides.

I’m only a chemist, so engineers, feel free to shoot this idea down...

Jeep 4.0 > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 17:37

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As I’ve been watching old crashes recently, I realize how far we’ve come in safety, but we still have a ways to go

mrbwa1 > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 17:40

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I feel like the back of the hoof coming up on Kenseth’s car acted a bit like an air brake, slowing air flowing and aiding in the back end coming up.

Frankly, I was more concerned about the car goin windshield first into the wall which I imagine would have been horrific.

clear-prop > northernwreck 05/02/2016 at 17:55

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It would be easy to have the system leave the airbrakes deployed so the ‘virtually crashed’ car has to come into pits to reset them. Still would be quicker than beating panels and taping them up.

MyTVNeverLies > Vodanation 05/02/2016 at 18:13

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Chutes, airbags, and some rockets if you want to get fancy.

MGme > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 18:54

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Talladega - The World’s Fastest Wrecking Yard

rabbit21787 > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 19:00

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Good article. Watching it it made sense that Matt’s car flipped but its interesting to see the break down as to why.

squinty19er > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 19:37

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ejector seats, final answer.

bwp240 > mrbwa1 05/02/2016 at 20:12

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I noticed that. He pretty much figured out another way to miss the SAFER barrier.

bwp240 > tacos 4 life 05/02/2016 at 20:16

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That’s okay. I’m only a meteorologist lol.

I am not sure how a B pillar flap would work, or if there would be enough surface area to have a significant effect.

bwp240 > Jeep 4.0 05/02/2016 at 20:23

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We are never going to make the sport completely safe. A 3400 pound brick is still a 3400 pound brick according to the laws of physics. The best we can do is implement systems to help survive these crashes. That has happened especially within the past 2 decades. Look at the crashes from the 1970s vs today. The drivers’ cages are built like tanks.

Frankly, Danica’s crash or the 25's crash in the Xfinity race Saturday looked much worse than any of the tumbles we saw. That is were the innovations need to go.

I am all for keeping cars out of the stands, but I think that is more of a track design dilemma than fixing the cars.

bwp240 > andersonwal 05/02/2016 at 20:27

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I would take the roll. As the car rolls it dissipates energy, meaning that once it hits the wall, the force will be much less. I’ll take a tumble dry with a bit of vomiting over a 200 mph head on into a wall.

I would not like to go into the catch fence, but I think that side of the issue is more on the track designers than the cars.

p51d007 > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 21:00

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Here’s an idea...STOP using these super aerodynamic cars and make them go back to STOCK car racing. I stopped watching NASCAR years ago when the cars all started to LOOK IDENTICAL, save for the numbers & paint schemes. They all look alike, the all race alike, they all are alike. Go back to STOCK car racing like they had in the 50's, 60's & 70's and maybe these cars won’t think they are airplanes when they go backwards.

HiramJahoovafatJr > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 21:08

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Needs more flaps...

Stef Schrader > tacos 4 life 05/02/2016 at 21:17

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OT: I’m just a writer, but you have the best username EVER.

Clay_T > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 22:07

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Nice writeup!

Of the wrecks you posted, the only blowover is Kenseth’s. As you said, the junk flopping around under the right front corner kicks the corner up, packs some air under it and off it goes.

The rest are mechanical rollovers. Airflow does contribute to hang time but in the end, they just done tipped over.

The intent of the roof flaps is to keep the car from lifting enough to pack enough air under it to blow it over.

The flaps won’t bring it back down once it’s reached the critical angle of attack to fly. For that you’d need a flap the size of the bottom of the car.

Semprecorsa > bwp240 05/02/2016 at 23:59

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Can confirm, sweet spot hits result in catapult

Squoosh666 > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 00:29

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How can a sport be both so boring and dangerous?

bassracerx > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 02:35

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that is another point. these cars are now running the “low drag” package. the drivers (and fans) love it because of the extra speed and less pushing necessary on these restrictor plate races but maybe on the super speedways a longer ducktail is necessary for some side draft. or some sort of shark fin on the roof or trunk to scrub speed when the tail comes around quick.

Charles Spratlin > NegativeEd 05/03/2016 at 03:43

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the issue is how would the computer know when to fire them, too sensitive and then the entire field will go off, too relaxed and it wont work when it should.

not only that but to slow the car that much makes it an immediate danger to the rest of the field behind him. even out of control the car is still retaining a good chunk of momentum giving the others reaction time. this would toss that right out the window.

koreawut > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 03:47

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This is something that annoys me about naysayers. NASCAR has done almost as much as is possible when it comes to keeping cars on the ground and the vast majority (if not every) flip or attempted flip comes as a direct result of contact. Either they are being pushed backwards/sideways by another car or they have a impact heavy enough to give them 3-6 inches of ‘starter’ air to assist in anti-grav.

Remove these variables and the cares just aren’t flipping over. If they want to remove all possibilities then they need to make the rear and sides of the car just as stuck to the ground as the front.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > mrbwa1 05/03/2016 at 07:16

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Yep, that’s exactly what I was saying.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 07:17

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From experience, rolls are totally the way to crash. Wrecks the car, but if you’re restrained properly and the car’s caged, it slows the car over quite a distance.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > UnknownPerson2 05/03/2016 at 08:35

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Diffusers only really work when close to the ground. I think once he’s up that high, the usefullness of it is gone. Letting air out from that bumper sail though....

northernwreck > clear-prop 05/03/2016 at 08:59

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That is probably a better system than the ones I suggested as long as any hood flaps are not included i.e. reset immediately, for visibility reasons.

UnknownPerson2 > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 05/03/2016 at 09:18

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That is why I didn’t want to call it a diffuser. The point would not be to create a low pressure zone to suck the car down but to reduce the sail area.

jedre > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 09:19

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Given the mass and velocity of the car, there’s no way those little flaps create enough force to be significant. If they were, drag racing (and I appreciate the difference, but to illustrate the point...) wouldn’t use massive parachutes - they’d use a series of little flaps.

They are cosmetic attempts to look like a safety feature, but they aren’t.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > UnknownPerson2 05/03/2016 at 09:54

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You could also be increasing the sail area if the front goes first. That’s what happened to Jann Mardenborough at the Nordschleife last year.

bwp240 > Squoosh666 05/03/2016 at 12:57

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Soccer can be quite dangerous

Acragas > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 13:00

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Even on the Kenseth wreck, compare the violence of the hit he takes versus Danica’s impact on the inside wall - our eyes are drawn to Kenseth’s more spectacular looking rolling wreck but the hit Danica takes is much more violent and much, much more frightening.

bwp240 > jedre 05/03/2016 at 13:08

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They do work and are actually fairly large, especially with these Gen6 cars. Basic premise is to act as a barrier and build up more air pressure on the roof and trunk to keep the back end down.

Now to your point, like most airplane wings and flaps, there is a maximum to the amount of pressure/drag they can generate. Maybe they need to figure out what that limit is. These may be cases of more lift is created by the underside at these speeds than the roof flaps can counter act.

bwp240 > Acragas 05/03/2016 at 13:10

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I agree. In the Buescher roll look at the hit Annett takes, much much worse.

MotorcycleRider > jedre 05/03/2016 at 15:43

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As usual, we have unwanted, nonsensical input from the armchair engineers...

MotorcycleRider > andersonwal 05/03/2016 at 15:48

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“theyll most likely hit at a fairly shallow angle but you also run the rick of going much higher in the air and into the catch fence”

It’s been shown many times that outside of very fluke incidents, the catch fence can handle being hit with a car. Let them fly into the catch fence. They do their job of protecting fans, and they do a great job of absorbing and dissipating energy.

Brianorca > jedre 05/03/2016 at 16:34

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They are not supposed to create a force, they break the airflow that would otherwise create an undesirable force. The cars are designed so that forward motion creates a downforce. But if they get turned around, that backwards motion can turn into an upforce. The flaps break the aerodynamics to prevent that. They won’t do anything if something other than air is pushing the car up, or if the car is already airborne and has changed its angle to the pavement.

Ascent69 > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 17:30

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ANSWER. As much as NASCAR strives on big crashes, driver safety is most important,so a)underbody diffusers with a flat underbody floor so as to not let air catch under the rearmost bodywork and cause lift if the car gets air under the front splitter..And a big diffuser out of the rear of the car would aesthetically look cool, And b) Front dive planes to add a small, yet desirable amount of front downforce to add stability. and keep the front of the car planted. Both will not add drag, and will not cosmetically *much* on the car.

Thoughts?

Jeep 4.0 > bwp240 05/03/2016 at 19:59

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I think there should be SAFER walls around every inch of every racetrack. I know it’s ridiculously expensive but I doubt we will see any injuries at all if there’s no concrete to hit

bwp240 > Jeep 4.0 05/03/2016 at 22:31

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so there would be 30ft tall SAFER barrier walls? SAFER road surfaces? SAFER Fence?

Trying to prevent every anomalous event is an exercise in futility.

bwp240 > Ascent69 05/03/2016 at 22:36

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Hmm, the main issue with the front end stuff is trying to prevent bringing back the old (terrible) package.

I like the idea of underbody diffusers and I think that is the most logical way to go if they decide to do anything. You could add diffusers to the car without majorly changing the aesthetics

Doesn’t Indycar use a underbody diffuser?

jedre > MotorcycleRider 05/04/2016 at 12:39

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I’m an aeronautical engineer, but whatever.

jedre > Brianorca 05/04/2016 at 12:46

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It’s meant to stop the top of the car and the wing/“spoiler” from becoming an airfoil (or airfoils) when the direction is reversed, yes, I understand. This results in a force, or change in force - I should have been more clear (if it didn’t it would be “invisible” to physics).

My contention is still that these tiny flaps are not significant enough to impart a dramatic change, given the area and location of the potential airfoil(s), and its speed/inertia.

If you’d like to show me the windtunnel data (NASCAR claims to have some) suggesting otherwise, I’d find it a fascinating read.

jedre > bwp240 05/04/2016 at 12:53

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I understand the premise, I just can’t get basic formulas to suggest (and the fact that it’s still prevalent also) that the flappy area is enough relative to the rest of the area of the airfoil to make two shits of difference.

I also think the placement of the wing/spoiler, when backwards, has a leading edge higher than trailing edge, which would provide lift (i.e., opposite effect as the forward direction).

They should make a system that detaches the wing/spoiler when wind direction is reversed (i.e., firm when pushed from the front, snaps off when blown from the back).

Ascent69 > bwp240 05/04/2016 at 17:17

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Thank you for your response. I believe most or all high speed racers from INDY to IMSA to F1 all use underbody aero to fight undesired lift and aid high speed stability. Rollovers happen but much, much less frequently. In NASCAR, high speed is paramount! I’m surprised-well no I’m not really surprised to be honest- that NASCAR has not employeed these changes. The dive planes I was suggesting are the 2 or 3 on the front corners of the car which plant the car but don’t do a reverse effect if the car gets airbourne. I would love to see a safer, faster, entertaining NASCAR race in the future.

S2Konstantin > jedre 05/04/2016 at 19:12

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Parachutes are way way way lighter. A bag of fabric that expands to cover a huge area is always going to be lighter than enough metal to cover the same area.

Ken > Ascent69 05/12/2016 at 20:36

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Definitely in F1, they have that diffuser under the car that the teams hate. Gives the car less downforce but at the same time the car rarely goes flying. The first time i even seen a car go flying was Fernando Alonso hitting Esteben Guiterrez at Australia.